Fiyaz Mughal

Thank you very much Manzoor for giving your time for the interview today. I think you have got a vast amount of experience about what has happened in Uganda and I thought we could start off with what you did in Uganda what was your occupation and the kind of activities you conducted.

Manzoor Moghal

I was a Company Director of two companies which were family run companies and I being the eldest son my father forced me into the business as he was finding it difficult to manage. I am and I was always an academic by inclination. I am a university graduate and I would have gone into further higher education. I intended to go into medicine and I was offered a place in a very renowned medical college in Pakistan but I was unable to go further because of my father’s wishes. I then became a Director in two family run companies we had a motor showroom, workshops, auto spares and insurance. My father had expanded his property portfolio and I also managed his properties. We had considerable interest in Uganda in different sectors and I was kept busy but I was never deeply interested in the commercial life. I then indulged in politics of the country, and I became a local counsellor at a very young age and then later I became the first Deputy Mayor of my town. I also stood for Parliament in Uganda unsuccessfully but my interest in politics was maintained and throughout my life in Uganda and I had very good friends amongst Africans, Asians and Europeans because I had a broad spectrum of friends across the country.

Fiyaz Mughal

And Manzoor you were born in Uganda am I right?

Manzoor Moghal

No I was born in British India and when I was an infant I travelled to Uganda with my mother, my father having preceded us. I grew up in Uganda, and I had my primary and secondary education in Uganda and I did extremely well and then I went on to Pakistan for further education. I did my Punjab University degree in sciences at a very prestigious college, the Forman Christian College, Lohore.

Fiyaz Mughal

And let me if I can take you back to the period where Amin had taken power and you are one of the very few people that Amin had engaged with regarding his policy about Asians. Can you tell me when the start of your engagement with Idi Amin took place?

Manzoor Moghal

The Asian community in Uganda was under pressure from 1966 onwards. Uganda became independent in October 1962 when the country's population stood at just over 11 million people and of these some 60,000 were Asians. After the Independence in October 1962 many Asians began to leave Uganda and they felt insecure under the new government, but those who remained lived comfortably until May 1966 when the Prime Minister of Uganda Milton Obete overthrew the President of Uganda who was also the Kabaka (King of Buganda) in a coup spear headed by the army under Idi Amin. This began a reign of terror conducted by the army with military road blocks of many parts of the country.  This was done on the orders of Milton Obote. I remember very well the day of the coup because I was chairing a meeting of the Uganda Urban Authorities Association at the Town Hall in Kampala.  Representatives from all the local authorities including Mayors had come to attend the meeting.  As soon as we heard rumours I concluded the meeting and wished all the delegates safe return to their homes. I remain stranded in Kampala for three days and I could not go back because the road was unsafe and reportedly dug up in some places. All telephone lines were cut off and after 3 days I was able to travel in a convoy of military escort to my home in Masaka. Life became difficult for the Asians after Milton Obote who had become President began targeting the Asians, threatening them with expulsion and also restricting their trading activities by denying them trading licences in many parts of the country, and generally indulging in anti-Asian propaganda to gain the support of the African population. There was discrimination against the Asians in jobs under the pretext of Africanisation which meant that increasingly the Asians became unemployed. Things were not good for the Asians at the time when Idi Amin staged his coup in January 1971 and became President. The people of Buganda where I lived were jubilant because they saw in Idi Amin as a redeemer who had got rid of a despot and a dictator who was hated by the people because of his brutal regime. There was a sense of relief in the country with Idi Amin’s arrival and the Asians felt that Idi Amin would be their redeemer as well. We all celebrated. After a few months Idi Amin turned his attention to the Asians and began threatening them with expulsion for their disloyalty to the country. Idi Amin was the favourite of the British government and they were the first one to recognise his government after the coup. When Idi Amin came to London he was well received and lunched with the Queen at Buckingham Palace and was. He was wined and dined throughout his stay in London and on top of that he was promised aid of £10 million which he was delighted to announce on his return to Uganda. Soon Uganda’s coffers began to run dry, there was no money left and Idi Amin began to demand from Britain the £10 million they had promised him. Britain reply was  that they were not going to give him the aid in cash but they would fund projects for Uganda in this amount, and that's how the aid was designed. However, Idi Amin understood aid as cash. He emphasised that he was promised £10 million aid and he wanted this in cash. He used to walk into the State Bank of Uganda in Kampala and go to the cash draws and picked up all the dollar and pound notes, stuff his pockets with them and walk away.  He could not be stopped and he was accountable to nobody.

The refusal of Britain to part with the cash aggravated the situation considerably because Idi Amin began to threaten the Ugandan Asians and warned Britain that “He’ll teach them a lesson which they would not forget ever if they did not honour the commitment of the £10 million which he wanted in cash”. Britain thought that he was bluffing and he could not be serious. After all he was a buffoon in their estimation.  Idi Amin was serious and he meant business.  In the meantime he found a friend in President Muhammar Gaddafi of Libya who promised to give him as much money as he needed with other kinds of help. Britain still never took him seriously. That's how the Asian expulsion crisis precipitated. In December 1971 I and 12 other leading members of the Asian community were invited by Idi Amin to the State House for a meeting at Entebbe with him. We lunched with him lavishly and we had a long meeting with him in which I took a leading part in discussions. He had a number of his important Generals and his Cabinet Ministers at this meeting. He introduced us to them and our meeting lasted a long time in which we exchanged views on the Asians in Uganda. After the meeting was over he said “Manzoor I now understand the Asian situation and in the future whenever I take a decision about the Asian community I will always consult you because you and your colleagues are the leaders of the community and I’ll always consult you”. We went away quite satisfied that we had managed to diffuse the anti-Asian propaganda in the country. When we gathered for a debriefing at the Victoria Hotel in Entebbe we knew in our minds that all we succeeded in doing was to buy some time, possibly two or three years but our fate had been sealed and the Asians had no future in Uganda, and we were certain of this. Then in August 1972 quite unexpectedly he made this bombshell announcement of the expulsion of Asians. I had met Idi Amin a number of times in my hometown in Masaka. I had spoken to him, and we had sat together and eaten together at the celebration of the Birthday of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) he sat next to me on the ground and we talked. I also met him once or twice again and therefore I knew him from close quarters. Whilst being jovial outwardly he was ordering his soldiers to carry out atrocities and brutalities against his real and imaginary enemies. Anyone who opposed him was physically eliminated. He got his favourite henchmen who did the dastardly deeds for him and that is how he remained in power.

Fiyaz Mughal

So you had met with Amin and bought some time you said. When did you finally realise that the time was up, that he was going to kick out the Uganda Asians?

Manzoor Moghal

After the meeting with Idi Amin at the State House, as I said earlier in a debriefing meeting of the Asian leaders, we were convinced that the Asian community had no future in Uganda. They could be there for another two or three years but they should start making preparations for departing Uganda and finding a place elsewhere, either go to Britain, India, Pakistan, Canada or any other safe country. Unfortunately, in the meantime Idi Amin’s needs for cash became very urgent and he repeatedly kept on demanding the £10 million promised by Britain to him. However, as Britain would not cough up the money he then began to threaten to expel the Asian community. Britain did not take him seriously and thought he was bluffing.  Idi Amin repeated the threat and told Britain that he would teach them a lesson which they will not forget for many years. Britain continued to ignore the threat. Idi Amin had to pay his army soldiers their salaries, buy loads of whiskey for them to keep them happy. He also had to give hope to the Africans in the country that they would become wealthy and the only way he could do this was by giving some indication that he would carry out a massive robbery of the Asian assets by expelling them from the country. This began to change the equation in the minds of Ugandan Africans. He then finally made the expulsion announcement in the first week of August 1972. I had been away from Uganda for about a month from the middle of June and arrived back at the end of July. I was the District Governor of Lions International District 411 covering Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania and Ethiopia and accompanied by my wife had gone to Mexico City to attend International Lions convention. We took the opportunity of touring around the United States, Canada and many European countries returning to Uganda at the end of July. When I returned, I found that my father was very ill and he needed treatment and his consultant who used to come to Kampala once a month was based in Nairobi. I flew out to Nairobi with my father and whilst my father was in hospital I heard Idi Amin’s announcement on the radio that the Asians were going to be expelled and they had to leave the country in 90 days’ and those who remained out of Uganda and did not return to Kampala would not be allowed to enter Uganda. I hurriedly made arrangements to go back to Uganda and face the situation.

Fiyaz Mughal

As you were leaving the country when did you exactly leave and what was your experience of exiting Uganda?

Manzoor Moghal

I was thrown in a quandary like everybody else and it was traumatic. This was most unexpected and it was a great shock which I could not absorb for quite some time and then I began to think in terms of leaving the country and seeking a new home in Canada where I had friends and I liked the Country. I had passed through Canada on my way back from Mexico and also I had visited Leicester to see a dear friend of mine in July 1972. I did not know what to do but I knew that I had to make preparation to leave Uganda, and Canada was in my mind. I travelled to Kampala to see the Canadian Embassy for a visa but before I could meet them I met a dear friend of mine in Kampala who informed me confidentially that my name was on Idi Amin’s hit list of people to be physically eliminated after arresting them. That came as a great shock to me and I travelled back to my home with haste. I began to make enquiries and my fears were confirmed that I was on the hit list amongst other people and I would be killed by his henchman who was based in Masaka an army officer called Maliyamungu who was the Commander of the unit based in Masaka barracks. When my worst fears were confirmed I began to make arrangements to depart for Britain and because I had visited Britain on my way back from Mexico I had a proper visa to enter Britain at the time, and I went and saw the British High Commission in Kampala and they said that I could enter Britain without any difficulty. I left my house as it was as if it was being lived in, and also living behind my cars, my business and everything else I owned. I then travelled from Masaka to Entebbe in the middle of the night on 9^th September 1972 with my wife and my three children my father drove us there. All the flights out of Entebbe were full and after several enquiries we managed to get 5 seats in a Lufthansa plane which took us to Frantfurt, and from there we proceeded to London on another flight arriving on 10^th September 1972. A few days after my arrival in Britain I learned that a dear friend of mine Francis Walugembe a Ugandan African who was once a Minister in the Kabaka’s government and a very influential politician had been brutally murdered after being chased through Masaka.  He was captured and brutalised before being killed by Maliyamungu and his soldiers. A few days before my secret departure from Uganda Francis Walugembe had come to see me at my office in the evening. He said that he had been promised by Idi Amin to be appointed the Governor of a new province which was to be carved out of the Districts of Buganda and Ankole.  He also said that Idi Amin did not like educated people and suggested that people like him and me should make ourselves scarce from the scene. I did not tell him that I had already made plans for fleeing Uganda.  Only my father, one of my brothers and a senior member of my staff knew of my plan.

Idi Amin had the knack of being very affable and he disarmed people including his enemies with his frequent guffaws and patting you on the back, and whilst he was disarming you he might be scheming to brutally eliminate you. That is how he tried to dupe Francis Walugembe.

Fiyaz Mughal

And with such a, if I use the term traumatic removal of yourself from Uganda, what lasting impact did this upheaval leave on you emotionally?

Manzoor Moghal

I did not know what to do as it was a huge emotional upheaval. The worst thing was that in the meantime whilst all this chaos was going on in Uganda the British media were circulating unconfirmed stories of some 80,000 Ugandan Asians descending on Britain, which would make life difficult for the British and such large numbers could not be accommodated. In the midst of this Idi Amin called a high-level meeting to which I was invited as an Asian leader at his Command Post in Kololo, Kampala.  The British High Commissioner Richard Slater and the High Commissioners of India and Pakistan were also present at this meeting.  After Idi Amin had addressed the gathering explaining why he had issued the expulsion order against the Ugandan Asians the British High Commissioner had nothing to say except in a wimpish voice said that he was consulting the British Government about the number of people they could take in. The Indian and Pakistani High Commissioners had nothing to say. I could have said a lot of things but I knew it was futile because Idi Amin’s mind had been made up and he came to tell us once again the action he was taking and further, I would have be more of a target, especially after my high level participation in the much publicised Conference of Ugandan Asians leaders in December 1971.  I left the Command Post and when I came downstairs there were a number of journalists including BBC who wanted to interview me and I said “no comment” as I did not wish anymore publicity which could put me in greater danger. Previously before the Asian Conference at the Nile Conference Centre when leaders of the Asian community had been invited I was chosen despite my reluctance to lead the Masaka Delegation. We and all other delegates from Uganda were accommodated at the best hotel in Kampala, the Apollo Hotel. The Conference Hall was fully packed. There were diplomats from all over the world whose countries had embassies in Uganda. All the Army Generals were there along with VIPs and the Press. We all awaited the entry of Idi Amin and all delegates had come with their own pieces of address to congratulate Idi Amin and express the hope that he would help the beleaguered Asian Community to build Uganda by investing in various sectors of trade and industry. We were all in a mood of expectancy and had hopes in Idi Amin. When he arrived, resplendent in his army uniform he began by attacking the Asian community in the most vituperative and most poisonous language accusing the Asians of all kinds of malpractices including, two sets of accounting books in their business’s for avoiding tax and not giving Asian girls in marriage to Africans. He also attacked the Asians of being disloyal to Uganda and sabotaging the Country’s economy and not giving their premises on rent to the Ugandan African traders. That was the most shocking attack against the Asian community, and we were all taken aback. Our prepared addresses had to be discarded and suddenly we had to come together to formulate a joint response. Leaders of all the Asian delegates came to me and asked me to be their spokesman.  Idi Amin left the Conference Hall after his address, and we were supposed to respond after his departure. I responded in a most diplomatic way and dismantled most of the accusations he had made but without any aggravation or any offence against anyone. Systematically and with logic I proved that there was no real truth in them. We were then all invited to lunch at the State House in Kampala. Later we were asked to do a TV interview which was conducted by a very with Ugandan African presenter. I was amongst a panel of five Asian leaders, and I was their main spokesman. Once again, I dismantled all accusations made by Idi Amin against the Asian community, steering away from causing any offence to him. This had a wide coverage in Uganda and that I think quieted Idi Amin somewhat. In December 1971 he might have wanted to take some precipitate action against the Asian community but because we were able to advance convincing arguments regarding the accusations he kept quiet and later he invited a delegation of 13 Asian leaders to a meeting and lunch at the State House at Entebbe.

He was the most dangerous and brutal person who would eliminate people without any compunction but he got the dirty work done by his henchman Maliyamungu.

Fiyaz Mughal

Now one of the things you highlighted to me Manzoor is that you were the only Ugandan Asian to then meet Amin in 1984 in Saudi Arabia and you had a 5/6-hour conversation over a meal with him. What did Amin reflect back in that meeting to you because this is a unique piece of history here.

Manzoor Moghal

I was in Saudi Arabia in 1984 with my wife and we had gone to see a doctor friend of ours who worked in a Jeddah hospital friend and had known him and his wife from Uganda. We also took the opportunity to perform ‘Umrah’ in Mecca which is like a mini–Haj.  It was a very wonderful experience doing Umrah and we enjoyed it.  We talked about Uganda and we knew that Idi Amin was the guest of the King of Saudi Arabia and was resident in a villa in Jeddah. We thought of arranging a meeting with Idi Amin and we found a person who had some contacts with Idi Amin’s villa staff and he agreed to be the go between. I gave him my name to pass onto Idi Amin, and a meeting was arranged. My doctor friend and I and the intermediary travelled to his villa which was some distance from where we lived. We parked outside his villa and there was an armed guard in a kiosk outside his villa.  He identified us and having received consent he took us inside the villa through a long walk. We reached his room and as soon as the door opened, he appeared to welcome us.  He embraced us warmly and made us sit down in his lounge. I asked him how he was and he said he was very well and asked us about ourselves. I address him as Mr President and he seem to like it. We started to talk about Uganda and exchanging views on various other matters. As our discussions progressed, he telephoned some of his friends in Jeddah who were members of his Cabinet in waiting including his Prime Minister designate to come to his house to meet us. He then instructed his sons to tell their mother to prepare food so that we could all dine together. We had some lamb curry and some other food with nans and rice which we all enjoyed. We arrived at the villa at about 7 in the evening and left at 1’00 o’ clock in the morning, the meeting having lasted some 6 hours. During our 6-hour meeting we talked about politics of Uganda in particular and politics of Britain and Africa in general. He was planning to stage a comeback to Uganda with a force of armed militia based across the border in Zaire and the backing of President Joseph Mubuto of Zaire (now known as the Democratic Republic of Congo). During our conversation he also asked me to tell all the Ugandan Asians who had been expelled to return to Uganda.  It was his way of apologising for the wrong he had done to them and the damage it had caused to the Country.  As we were leaving accompanied by him and passing through a room he stopped by a blackboard and told us that the writing on it was in the German language and he was learning the language from a German teacher.  He was a great admirer of Adolf Hitler. When we left he walked with us to our car showing us on the way the matoke and mohogo (staple food of Ugandan Africans) which he had planted in his garden. He came to our car with us opened the door for me and we embraced and said goodbye. Uganda remained in doldrums for many years after the overthrow of Idi Amin in 1979. In 1992 I went back to Uganda as part of a BBC radio documentary programme. I found the country in a terribly devastated state with derelict buildings and roads full of potholes and many services almost non-existent. Before I was due to do a radio broadcast at the Ugandan Broadcasting House I wanted to use the gent’s facility. It was evening time and dark, and the light bulbs in the passageway were not lit as all the bulbs had fused. I reached the door and as soon as I opened it I was overpowered by the stench coming out from there, and had to run away from it.

Fiyaz Mughal

He was quite open to learning?

Manzoor Moghal

The British propagated the myth saying that he was suffering from syphilis which had gone to his brain. On the contrary he was very alert and cunning and outsmarted his enemies. He knew what was happening in the world, he could plan and execute without fear.

Fiyaz Mughal

So that was the primary reason they took him in?

Manzoor Moghal

The Saudi King had given Idi Amin refuge in Saudi Arabia because he was a Muslim and Idi Amin had indicated to him that he would make Uganda a Muslim nation, despite the fact that the Muslim population in Uganda was around 15 to 20% only and the rest were Catholics and Protestants. When he fled Uganda Muhammar Gaddafi allowed him into Libya and he stayed there for a short time from where he proceeded to Saudi Arabia.

Fiyaz Mughal

Rightly misjudged.

Manzoor Moghal

He was misjudged by those dealing with him who should have known better had they cared to study the reality. He was a crafty person and had the ability disarming people and making friends quickly. He was certainly not syphilitic nor a buffoon.  His memory was good and all the time whilst he was in exile, he was quietly planning a comeback. What he realised was that he had committed a blunder in expelling the Asians because the Asian community would have been the strongest pillar for the economic prosperity, stability and the development of Uganda had he enlisted their support. We would have been the greatest asset for Uganda and Uganda would have been a shining example of a prosperous nation and it would have become truly a pearl of Africa, as Sir Winston Churchill said many years ago when he visited Uganda. Uganda is still the pearl of Africa for tourists but not from the point of politics and governance. Economically the country has become stable, and its population now is just around 47 million. When we left Uganda in 1972 the population was about 12 million and what is most significant to know is that the total population of the Asians in Uganda in 1972 was around 35,000. It had declined from 60,000 in 1962 to 35,000 and of those some 10,000 went to Canada and European countries and the United States because they were made stateless. A few hundred went to Indian and Pakistan because they carried those passports and the majority of around 24,000 who had British passports came to Britain. The British High Commission in Uganda should have known the numbers and yet despite that knowledge they never corrected the British news media which was continually flagging the figure of 80,000 Asians coming to Britain. This obviously created hysteria amongst the British people. Britain’s population in 1972 was 55 million and today after 50 years it is 67 million - a fractional growth per year. The cry in Britain was that there were no places for the children in schools, no housing and no capacity for Social Services for them. Leicester City Council was in the forefront by taking an advertisement in Uganda’s English Daily telling the Ugandan Asians not to come to Leicester because there was no housing, no school places for the children and no capacity of providing social services etc. This backfired because Ugandan Asian who came to Britain came to see Leicester out of curiosity and what they saw they liked. They found a nucleus of well settled Asian community with Asian corner shops, temples, mosques and gurdwaras. It was a well-knit community, so naturally they were attracted to come and settle in Leicester. Some 6,000 Ugandan Asians out of a total of some £24,000 came to Leicester. They did not bother about Council Housing or going to any refugee camps set up by the government. The question you may want to ask as to why did the British High Commission in Kampala did not correct the number of the Ugandan Asian refugees coming to Britain which was their duty. Much later when the British found that Idi Amin was serious in his intentions why did the British High Commissioner in Uganda not call a meeting of the Asian leaders to discuss the crises with them. If you had lived in Kampala in those days you would have seen long queues of Asian men, women and children queuing outside the British High Commission and being laughed at by Ugandan army soldiers who drove by in their military vehicles. Idi Amin himself also drove by a number of times and took pleasure in seeing them belittled in this humiliating manner where they stood like beggars for British visas. The 1968 legislation passed by the Labour government when Roy Jenkins was the Home Secretary was discriminatory and unfair against Asians and, the requirement of visas for those holding proper British passports should have been suspended. The next question that may come to mind as to how have these Ugandan Asians done in their new homelands. The Asians that come from the Indian sub-continent comprising India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are enterprising people and do well wherever they go in the world. They start small businesses and work very hard to succeed. I went to the holiday resort of Montego Bay in Jamaica some years ago with my wife with a group of people and visited a Jamaican Farm with a friend and his wife.  On our way back we were hungry and it had been a long day so we stopped at a fast food KFC to eat.  Nearby we found quite a big jeweller’s shop and went in to browse through the display of jewellery. It was a beautiful shop with items of gold, diamonds, pearls and other valuable ornaments. I had a long talk with the Asian owner and he told me that he had come from India and had established this jeweller’s shop. There was an Asian shop nearby selling garments and fabrics and it seemed to be doing good business. It showed that even in the remote parts of Montego Bay Asian traders were well established. In the small Island of Vanuatu in the South Pacific near Australia there are prosperous Asian shopkeepers, proving once again that they succeed wherever they go because of their hard work.

The younger generation of the expelled Ugandan Asians have been very fortunate in receiving good education up to higher levels with all the other incidental benefits. Many of the older generation who were affluent in Uganda suffered massively and some of my friends died of heart attack and strokes because of the trauma and of their losses. The poor and middle-class people, many of whom were unemployed and struggling did not really suffer in coming to Britain. The expulsion opened up new opportunities for them in a western country and they did not care too much about the racial discrimination which was quite bad in this country. It was so rife that you could cut the atmosphere with a knife. My father who never drank alcohol or smoked cigarettes was physically very fit and died at the age of 69. Because of his physical fitness he could have expected to live to a ripe old age, but the trauma of losing a fortune and being uprooted so brutally seems to have got to him.  He had single handedly built-up sizeable wealth with hard work and quality of service.

Fiyaz Mughal

Tell me Manzoor you have raised a really important point that many overlook is the impact on longevity, people losing their lives early because of the trauma and the stress. You went through, and I'm just reflecting back on what you said, you went through having to leave the country that you had grown up in - suddenly leaving your house as it was still being lived in. And when you landed in the UK it was clearly not a rosy picture, you just talked about racism being endemic in society, what were your experiences early in the first two years of trying to settle here in a completely different landscape?

Manzoor Moghal

I did not like Leicester and I did not want to settle in Britain because it was racist. Because of my different lifestyle and my command of the English language I did not experience racism directly, but I could see it all around, and I could deal with it effectively when I came across it. For example, in the early 1980’s or thereabouts, I was attending a big meeting outside the Town Hall in Leicester which was about signing a document mounted on a blackboard addressed to the leaders of the G7 leaders at their meeting urging them all to allocate 0.75% of their GDP in their budgets for international aid for poorer countries. The meeting was attended amongst others like Greville Janner the then Member of Parliament for Leicester East. I was seated on the front low and there was a middle-aged white woman who spoke to me after listening to the addresses of Asian leaders of different community groups who were also going to sign the document. After the Asian leaders had spoken she turned towards me and said in a low voice that Asians always spoke in a poor and undramatic English. My name was announced to come up to the stage and speak. I spoke extempore about politics in Britain and the poor developing countries and the need for international aid to help them. After I had finished my speech I return to my chair and as I sat down my neighbour the white woman who had earlier spoken to me was looking at me with her mouth open in amazement. She had not expected that any person not of her colour could speak English so well, in a place like Leicester. Then she asked me at which prestigious University in Britain was I educated and when I told her that I had graduated from the Punjab University in Pakistan she was dumbfounded. That was the level of ignorance amongst the indigenous people who seem to believe that Ugandan Asians had come from some jungle and spoke little English or no English at all. Little did they know that the systems of governance in Uganda were similar to what we have in Britain, as Uganda had been a British Protectorate ruled by them and the administration and laws were based on British systems and practices. The education in Uganda was based on British education systems for example we took the Cambridge School Certificate exam sat by Cambridge University when we did our O/A Levels.  The exams were marked at Cambridge University.  As I might have said earlier I had no intention of settling in Britain because it was clearly a racist society.  I wanted to go to Canada, but despite having acquired all the legal documentation to settle there I was unable to make the move as my wife was reluctant due to the fact that her parents and her brothers and sisters had all settled in Britain. I was completely disenchanted with Britain and therefore for a few years I just concentrated on running a business I had acquired. Seeing how bad things were I started taking an active part in community affairs and politics.  I became a Justice of the Peace in the latter years of 1980’s and was Chairman of my court for 10 years and brought in my own style of presiding.  I dispensed with the written script of formal communication, and spoke extempore addressing prisoners, lawyers, probation officers and the legal staff directly. I changed the standards to a higher level and this was recognised by all those attending the court.

I stood for Parliament in the General Election of 1987 as a Parliamentary candidate of the SDP from Bradford West and was unsuccessful. I was a founder member of the Social Democratic Party and in 1981 I went to attend the Party Conference at the Bradford Town Hall. During the first day of the conference I wanted to speak, and raised my hand several times after the main speakers had delivered their speeches. That evening I went to a restaurant to dine and having finished I sat in the lobby thinking as to what I should do in the next day’s session.  I was all alone and had nobody to talk to.  Shirley Williams who was one of the gang of the four who had launched the SDP happen to be passing by my way. I stopped her to have a conversation with her and engaged in a long conversation and she said Manzoor “why don’t you speak in tomorrow’s conference session”.  I told her that I had tried but had not been recognised.  She assured me that in the next day’s session if I raised my hand and gave my name she would call me to the stage to speak. It happened, and when I spoke briefly for a few minutes on a very topical subject I received a huge applause from the audience.  After the conference was over many people came to me to congratulate me on my outstanding performance and amongst these were delegates from Leicester who had come to attend the conference. We quickly became a team.  Thereafter in Leicester I was an active member on the Executive Committee of the Leicester branch of the SDP and was subsequently elected as a member of the National Executive of the Party.  In my new role I attended a number of National Executive meetings and conferences where I always spoke on relevant issues. I have written several newspaper articles on subject covering politics, religion, terrorism and social and economic affairs.  I have written books, the first one called ‘Idi Amin Lion of Africa’ which is a political history of Uganda, and it has had a very good reception.  I have also lectured at Leicester University, De Montfort University and Oxford University and groups of professional people on topical subjects. I have enjoyed all this enormously. I have had the privilege of wearing four different hats of identity in my lifetime and the fourth and last being British and I am proud to be British. Britain is my home.

For many years I was the Chairman of Leicestershire County Council’s Race Relations Committee from 1985 to 1997. We formed a community group comprising elected members from all the communities and we entered into a partnership with the County Council where our group of 12 members and 12 County Councillors formed the Race Relations Committee.  This was in the form of a formal contract signed between our group and the County Council which was a unique structure hitherto unknown anyway in Britain, and it has remained so. Our committee was part of the County Councillors sub-committee structure, and we took charge of all matters dealing with Race Relations in all the departments of the County Council. We also held many conferences at the County Hall to which eminent speakers were invited from across the country, and this stimulated many interesting discussions. I Chaired all these conferences, and I was complimented by many from the audience on my way of conducting the meetings. We met government Ministers and influenced them to change their approach to Race Relations. We changed the face of Race Relations in Leicester and people started saying that Leicester was a beacon of good race relations. We were approach by the Commission for Racial Equality (CRE) to work with them, but we declined because we did not want to work under them and their bureaucracy which had done little good in handling race relations. We were not paid by the County Council for our services, and we expected no payment.

I was awarded an MBE in 2001 for Race Relations in Leicester.

Fiyaz Mughal

Manzoor listening to you is like an encyclopaedia of knowledge particularly around one of the most disturbing era of history that impacted you directly, and in a way indirectly impacted me as a child of an Ugandan Asian, having been born in Uganda, in Fort Portal. I guess one of the things that I'm slightly concerned with is that the children of those of Ugandan heritage are not taking much interest in their own heritage, what would you say to them?

Manzoor Moghal

The problem with the young Ugandan Asian population is that they have been sucked into a consumer society where the only aim is to find good jobs. All the education they receive is for opening up opportunities for employment so that they can be slotted in appropriate sectors. The purpose of education is no longer to seek knowledge for its own purpose but rather to acquire skill to enable the young people to acquire skills for furthering their careers in corporate organisations where they are totally subservient to their employers. The whole ethos of education has been transformed from the seeking of knowledge for its own purpose to acquiring abilities to fit into corporate jobs. Their lives have become so busy in the pursuit in their careers that they have no time to study history.  History is the key to knowledge.  They think the stories they hear from their parents about the past are often exaggerated, bordering on fiction combined with nostalgia. They have not managed to form any focal group of Ugandan Asians where they could meet socially, eat together and talk about their Ugandan heritage.

I was an active member of the Asian Association which dealt with local and national matters affecting the commercial and social interests of the community. We must remember that about 70% of the buildings in the cities and towns in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania were built by the Asians who worked hard and accumulated wealth.  The British masters built only a few to house their administration and some civil servants.  The African contribution was the least. The Asians were the pillars of Uganda’s economy, commerce and stability and they helped the Africans in so many ways. If an African fell ill in a village in the middle of the night their relatives knocked on the door of the Asian shopkeeper who immediately brought out his vehicle to take the patient to a hospital, many miles away.  He did not delay nor did he ask for any payment. Indeed, the Asians provided many services to the Africans at a cost to themselves.

Fiyaz Mughal

Manzoor fantastic it's been a real pleasure to get the breadth of knowledge but I think the sacredness of your remembrance that's what I want to call it because it is a piece of history that must never be forgotten it's a sacredness of knowledge.