Max Russel

Well Pragna here we are in the Uprooted 50 Years Ago exhibition that you created and also curated. The exhibition documents and tells the story of Ugandan Asians from their life in Uganda, to the 1972 expulsion ordered by Idi Amin, to their arrival in the UK here at Greenham Common, and also to how they rebuilt and resettled in Britain. Why did you feel it was so important to document this story?

Pragna Hay

Do you know it’s part of my heritage, it's also a part of the local history here at Greenham and one of the things that really motivated me was my grandchildren. They need to know where their grandma and their great grandparents came from and what their history was and why, although the background is Indian, why were we born in Africa and why are we now living in the UK. So, I think they were one of my biggest motivators and one of the biggest reasons I needed our heritage to be documented.

Max Russel

And what do you remember about life in Uganda before the expulsion?

Pragna Hay

I was still quite young, but what I do remember is how life seemed so easy. I remember Sundays we used to have a day off, my father and my mother never used to work, and it was kind of a day out for the family all going out together. We weren't very wealthy but one of the things that my father used to do was roast peanuts, make a cone out of newspaper, he would make one for every one of us and then we’d go to the park or if there was a fun fair or whatever. Sundays was for [family] and those were some of the really beautiful memories I’ve got, the sun shining, us laughing and joking and having just so much fun, simple fun.

Max Russel

And then obviously the expulsion decree was ordered on the 4^th of August 1972. When did that become a reality that you had to leave Uganda?

Pragna Hay

I think it took a few days to sink in. So, the day the announcement was made it was Friday and it was an afternoon. We used to all gather in each other’s homes so that day in particular we were at our house so my cousins, my uncles, aunts were all there. One of my uncles came running into the room and said to my father to “Switch the radio on” and they all sat round stunned just listening to it, and I remember my father saying he couldn't believe it “Is this a joke that Idi Amin is playing on us?”. Even in the evening nobody could actually [believe it], it didn't sink in that it was reality and it wasn't until a day or two [later] that they started to realise that “Okay we actually now need to start thinking about how we're going to leave and what we're going to do and where are we going to go”. It was all that uncertainty, it was really quite frightening for all of them.

Max Russel

And how was that process of trying to leave Uganda?

Pragna Hay

Horrendous, horrendous. In our family my elder sister had just turned 16 and the children used to be on the mum’s passport, so she had just rolled off my mum’s passport, so she had no way of coming out of the country. So my father spent days and days and days getting all the documentation, standing in queues in that heat that was there, my brother actually used to sleep in the queues at night while my father used to go home just to get all the documentation in order, and of course if you ran your own business you had to ensure that you submitted all your documentation. So, you had to do your accounts, file your taxes, before you got a voucher to move onto the next process. So it was a very long winded process that everybody had to go through.

Max Russel

And then on what date did you finally leave Uganda?

Pragna Hay

We left Uganda on the 13^th of October 1972 and we landed at Stansted Airport on the 14th of October.

Max Russel

And then what happened then?

Pragna Hay

Well, we were bundled into coaches alongside all the other people that came, and we were taken to Houndstone Camp in Yeovil. There were 16 resettlement camps that were set up and we stayed there until February. When we got to the camp it was quite interesting because they greeted us, made sure we were all okay, everyone had to have a medical etc., but before that they took us into the canteen where they tried to make some Indian food for us. They’d made such a big effort they’d made potato curry, there were cheese breads, salads. So, they made lots of different types of food to try and help us settle in and lots of cups of teas were around.

Max Russel

And so, you were obviously in the resettlement camp for quite a few months with your family. How was that experience of living in a resettlement camp?

Pragna Hay

I think it was kind of a bit nerve wrecking to an extent. I think as a child because we were young for us it was bit more of an adventure, it was more our parents that were concerned “Where are the other family members, are the cousins and the aunties and uncles and everybody arriving or not?”. It was kind of military style so you had those sort of aluminium type beds that you see in these military films, the blankets on there were kind of rough not really comfortable blankets, it was cold in those places, a bit windy inside. It wasn't really as comfortable as it was at home, and it wasn't as warm because obviously October the first thing you realise as you come off the plane is the bitterness of the cold. The clothes that we came in were inadequate for the weather that was here, so of course all the charities provided us warm clothing etc. as well.

Max Russel

And touching on that, what do you remember about the role of volunteers and organisations like the Red Cross, do you remember engaging with them at the camps?

Pragna Hay

I do. They were really friendly, they were really making such an effort to make you feel comfortable, teaching you ways of settling in and adjusting. At Greenham there were a number of volunteers that would come and play with the children, teach them games that you know they hadn’t played before, if a child needed just a hug they were there just to give them hugs. It was those small things that the volunteers did that I think made the biggest difference to helping us in settling into a new country.

Max Russel

And you touched on there about Greenham Common and RAF Greenham Common which is where we are now, how did you end up relocating to that camp?

Pragna Hay

Houndstone Camp in Yeovil actually closed on the 16^th of February, so we were moved here on the 14^th of February 1973 and then we stayed here until the 2^nd of April at which point we were given permanent housing.

Max Russel

And was that housing local?

Pragna Hay

No, it wasn't. Initially we were offered in Livingston in Scotland, thankfully my father rejected that, and then we were offered housing in Redditch in Worcestershire.

Max Russel

And then how was that process of now integrating into society, rebuilding your lives, resettling. Obviously, you were still a child, but what do you remember about engaging in school, education, and then also your older siblings, and also your parents how did they readjust?

Pragna Hay

So my older siblings they spoke English, because in Uganda they were learning English, so for them they could at least communicate. My parents didn't speak any English, myself and my younger brother we didn’t speak any English either, so going to school was quite an experience and I have a memory of just standing in the corner of the playground with these young girls trying to chatter and talk to me and be friendly but I couldn’t understand a word they were saying and for a 6 year old that was quite a frightening experience. To think back now to go to a school, and I think it's probably happening now with some of the refugees that are coming into the country not knowing the language and you're being taught lessons in a language that you don't understand that's quite a step to make isn't it, quite an adjustment to make. Of course 50 years ago the food that is the national food of this country was not the national food of this country [that it is now] and cooking with things like garlic was unusual, and I remember that people would walk past our house holding their noses because it was a smell they weren't accustomed to, the smell of the curry and the spices and everything, so there was a fair bit of adjustment.

Max Russel

And what about your parents, what do you remember about their experience of readjusting to life and resettling?

Pragna Hay

I think for them it was a little bit more difficult. They didn't speak the language and I think my father probably found it a lot more difficult to settle than my mother did. My mother probably embraced the newfound independence. In Uganda women either worked in the family business or they stayed at home, looked after the home and the children. So then to come to the UK and go out to work was something different and I think that gives an independence that perhaps they didn't have before.

Max Russel

And your father?

Pragna Hay

My father I think struggled with adjusting here. In Uganda they had worked hard to be able to save enough money to buy a house and we were just at that point. Now if you can imagine, you've just saved for your first home and you're having to leave every single penny of that behind, that's going to hurt isn’t it, it's going to break your heart, and I think for my dad he felt that. I don't remember them talking about what happened very often at all, there weren't many conversations, so they didn’t speak about it. Was that through the hurt that they were still going through or was it that they had chosen to put the past behind them and just move on? I don't know because I never had that opportunity to ask them unfortunately.

Max Russel

And yourself when did you feel if and when that you were settled here, was it a process?

Pragna Hay

Oh that's a difficult question isn't it. I think it took some time, I sort of remember going to school wanting to do everything that the young girls at school did. One memory is Christmas time, we would come back to school after Christmas and all the youngsters were talking about all the presents and what they did at Christmas, well we didn't do any of that, but we lived in a country where that was celebrated do you know what I mean. Going through school it always felt different, I wouldn’t say that I felt like I didn't belong, but I didn’t 100% feel like I belonged. I knew I was different, I knew my history was different, I knew my background was different, and somehow I think that kind of stopped me from feeling 100% settled. Now completely settled, but to sort of put a timeline on when I felt I was really really settled in the UK that's quite a tough one, but I don't think it was for many many years, decades perhaps.

Max Russel

You said you eventually settled here, you have been back to Uganda since, could you tell us a bit more about that and what that experience was like?

Pragna Hay

10 years ago, when it was the 40th anniversary I was looking for somewhere to go on holiday and suddenly it was “Why not go to Uganda? Go and see my birthplace” and I actually spent my birthday in my birthplace that year which was really quite interesting. So that was my first trip back to Uganda, we did all the usual things that you would do when you go back to a country like that for the first time we went to see where we lived,, where the shop was, some of the places that mum and dad used to talk about we went to have a look at those. It was an emotional journey I guess in many many ways. I took my mum along with me, my brother came along as well, and my husband, but my mum already had dementia so she could remember bits of what life was like in Uganda, she couldn't remember everything, but it was nice to have been able to take her back to see Uganda. It was emotional in the sense that going to see the house you lived in, you know sometimes you have this memory in your mind but you don't know what it relates to, well when we walked into our old home, there was a lady she was living there at the time and she allowed us to go and have a look around, and the memories started to flood back. I could relate to the memories that were in my mind to seeing it their first hand and realizing “Okay well this memory is of this house, of this kitchen, of this lounge” and that was quite bizarre.

Max Russel

I think you’ve touched on it there it’s all about those memories and those lived experiences and so now today, 50 years down the line, how do we make sure that this history is documented for future generations and they know about what happened?

Pragna Hay

I think what we're doing now is a good way of doing it, talking about it more and trying to encourage youngsters to go home and speak to their parents I think that's quite an important thing, and I think that's something that's coming out a lot this year as well is to go home ask your parents, I mean have you ever asked your parents what their history is, what their background is? We tend not to do that and I think that's quite important to do.

Max Russel

Perfect thank you very much.