Jeevan Sanghera

First of all could I ask you to introduce yourself.

Kalpana Damodar

My name is Kalpana Damodar. I was born in Uganda, in the town called Mbale.

Jeevan Sanghera

What year were you born in?

Kalpana Damodar

1958.

Jeevan Sanghera

And can you tell me a little bit about how you came to be in Uganda?

Kalpana Damodar

My grandfathers were the ones who had immigrated to Uganda from India, when they were teenagers I believe, and then they got married to my grandmothers and they moved to Uganda and then my parents were born in Uganda, the whole family was born in Uganda.

Jeevan Sanghera

So your grandmothers, did they move from India?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes they moved from India.

Jeevan Sanghera

And that's when they got married?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you were growing up, what was that like, what was it like to grow up in Uganda?

Kalpana Damodar

Oh my God Uganda was like paradise, the weather was beautiful, people were really nice, there was no discrimination, everybody was friends with each other, all the families got along with each other. I can't say anything wrong about Uganda at the time, it was the best place to live.

Jeevan Sanghera

What are your favourite memories growing up?

Kalpana Damodar

Being with family, because the family members everybody knew each other, even distant relatives we all grew up together, and it was, I don't know how to explain, but it was like nobody was different you know we all grew up together.

Jeevan Sanghera

Was this amongst the South Asian community that was living there?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes yes no matter what you were, whether you were a Hindu or Muslim, we all got along very well, everybody was united, and everybody was like family.

Jeevan Sanghera

So what was the relationship like between the Asian communities and the black Ugandan people?

Kalpana Damodar

Yeah it was good most of the natives they were working class, working for the Asians, but all of them were treated very well and we got along with them.

Jeevan Sanghera

So in terms of when you were growing up did you go to school in Uganda?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes I did.

Jeevan Sanghera

What was that like?

Kalpana Damodar

It was really nice because the school was always [a] half day, you never went the full day, it was either 8 to 1 or 1 to 5/6, I can’t remember now, but I only went 8 to 1. And then when I got to the secondary school it was supposed to be the afternoon that's when this [expulsion] happened and no more school.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you were growing up what was your favourite subject at school?

Kalpana Damodar

I always liked science.

Jeevan Sanghera

And as a girl growing up, what was that like in the South Asian community?

Kalpana Damodar

You know some of the things it was different between boys and girls but otherwise we were treated equally. Boys could ride bikes girls couldn't ride bikes, things like that, but otherwise we were all treated equally.

Jeevan Sanghera

What was the cultural environment like and did you feel connected to India?

Kalpana Damodar

No not really because at that time, from Uganda, India seemed like so far away that not many people even visited India, because we couldn’t just fly there. Initially people used to go to Kenya and get the boat from there, and then there were flights, but still it wasn’t like everybody went all the time, like how people do now, it was once in a while people would go to India. So I actually had no connection with India at all.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did you do things like listen to Indian music or cinema?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes we always listened to Indian music, we went to the movies every week, once a week.

Jeevan Sanghera

Which was your favourite movie you watched?

Kalpana Damodar

Aradhana.

Jeevan Sanghera

That had Mere Sapno Ki Rani as the famous one?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes

Jeevan Sanghera

That’s one of my favourites. So when did you leave Uganda?

Kalpana Damodar

13^th October 1972.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did you expect to leave before?

Kalpana Damodar

No we never thought we’d leave Uganda ever, Uganda was our home, and then when the announcement came we had no choice.

Jeevan Sanghera

How did you feel when that was happening?

Kalpana Damodar

It was scary and also it was sad because we were going to leave everything there and we didn't know where we were going to end up.

Jeevan Sanghera

What were vivid memories from this time?

Kalpana Damodar

We couldn't go to school, my father was trying to get all the documents together, and my brother had a Ugandan passport so it was very difficult for him to get on the documents, and at the time the army was ruling the country, and even in the embassy it wasn't easy, they took his file and lost it, and they wouldn't give it back, and without bribing somebody, and it's just because my dad knew somebody who had a connection, and that's the only way he was able to get the file back and then get all the process done.

Jeevan Sanghera

You mentioned that you stopped going to school, was there a reason for that?

Kalpana Damodar

Well everything was shut down, nobody was doing anything, nobody is going to work, nobody was going to school, because everybody is trying to get everything together to leave, because most of the teachers were Asian, so there would be no teachers in the school

Jeevan Sanghera

You also mentioned that you were gathering things together, how did it feel kind of packing everything up?

Kalpana Damodar

Well we were only allowed one suitcase each, so a lot of stuff was not going to come with us. So it was difficult to choose what we were going to bring, plus we didn't even have proper clothes for England, we didn't know what to expect. So it's whatever we had we had to bring, and whatever we could fit in one suitcase

Jeevan Sanghera

Is there anything specific that you took with you that you kind of remember?

Kalpana Damodar

No, you know I was still very young so it was whatever my mum packed.

Jeevan Sanghera

If you still remember what's the most poignant things that you left behind, in your opinion?

Kalpana Damodar

We had this parrot which used to talk and it was very sad to leave him behind, because he wouldn't survive. Because every time my parents travelled on vacation or something, he wouldn't eat, so it was very sad to leave him. And then even the guy who used to work with us, he worked with us since I was like very very young, so it was sad to leave him that we didn't know what was going to happen to him.

Jeevan Sanghera

Were you able to keep in contact with him?

Kalpana Damodar

No because we had no idea where we were going to end up, we didn’t know where he's going to end up. And also a lot of friends, nobody knew who's going to be where, so lost touch with a lot of friends, so that was sad.

Jeevan Sanghera

If you could from memory describe your house in Uganda, what was it like?

Kalpana Damodar

It was beautiful it was a four bedroom house with two verandas and a huge dining room, living room. Because the company father worked for there were lot of expats coming there, so before us an expat used to stay there. So it was very modern, and it had a huge yard with mango trees, papaya trees, so it was really nice. And we were very close to Lake Victoria.

Jeevan Sanghera

Once you left your house and you left Uganda, and secured your documentation within the family, where did you end up going?

Kalpana Damodar

We went to England. Initially my dad didn't want to be a burden on anybody so we were going to go to the refugee camp, but one of my dad's elder brothers was in London before us, a year before, so he kept on checking to see when we were arriving and they came to pick us up, and we ended up with them, and they didn't have a house they were living in an apartment.

Jeevan Sanghera

Was there any kind of reasoning behind the choice of coming to England?

Kalpana Damodar

No because my parents were British subjects we had to go to Britain, no choice there.

Jeevan Sanghera

Prior to arriving in Britain what were your expectations of coming to the country?

Kalpana Damodar

It was a little scary because I really didn't know anything about England, at that time.

Jeevan Sanghera

Was it broadly a very new experience for you?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes it was a new experience, very new experience, and because we went in October it was very depressing as well.

Jeevan Sanghera

What was the journey like going from your house to England?

Kalpana Damodar

Really bad experience because from Jinja to Entebbe there were so many army checkpoints, and what they used to do is open your suitcase and take whatever they want. So luckily my dad had plenty of money, which he was going to leave behind, and then my parents also had friends who had a clothing store, and we went with somebody who was connected with the army, and he would go first and he would bribe them. So we were lucky that at the checkpoints we were not stopped and our bags were not checked, we were able to leave.

Jeevan Sanghera

How did you feel when you arrived at the airport?

Kalpana Damodar

Very scary because they used to do body searches and again check our bags and if they wanted anything they would take it, and all we were taking was one bag, and the body search was something new for us, so it was very scary.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you got onto the plane and you took off, was there a sense of relief?

Kalpana Damodar

It was relief but also anxious because that was the first time I was ever flying, but a lot of my parents’ friends and family members we were all on the same flight, so that was a comfort that we were all together.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you arrived in England, whereabouts did you arrive?

Kalpana Damodar

London

Jeevan Sanghera

And you mentioned, was it your dad's brother that you stayed with, so which area did you first live in?

Kalpana Damodar

I'm trying to think that but I just can’t all of a sudden it's blank right now.

Jeevan Sanghera

Do you remember what it was like when you first came here?

Kalpana Damodar

The area wasn’t bad, it was quite nice, but the apartment was very small. I think it was a two or three bedroom apartment, but had a big living room, and then what happened was there was four of us, in my family it's four of us, and one of my cousins used to live with us, so there were five of us, and then my dad's younger brother they had ended up in a refugee camp but then they went and got him and he had two kids, so there were another four people, and we were all living in this one small apartment.

Jeevan Sanghera

How long was that for?

Kalpana Damodar

So it was in October when we got there and then in December when it was like full winter really cold, for us it was just too cold, and then by 2:30 would be so dark, so it was so depressing. We hadn't got school yet and my dad and my uncle were both going to go look for places to stay, and they couldn't find anything because we were teenagers, and my uncle had younger kids, so nobody wanted to give a place for us to stay. So then in December one day the landlord, even though he was Punjabi who should have understood the situation, he shut down the gas and electricity, and he said that “We had to leave otherwise he’s not turning the gas and electricity on”. So then we had no choice and then my dad called my mum’s brother who was in Leicester, a year before, that if we could go a stay with him temporarily, so then we ended up with Leicester.

Jeevan Sanghera

So were you in Leicester for quite a while.

Kalpana Damodar

Yeah so after that I was in Leicester until 1980.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you were growing up in Leicester, what was that like?

Kalpana Damodar

So when we ended up in Leicester, because a lot of Asians went to Leicester, the area we were living in there were no schools available for us, for my age group and couple of years younger. So what they did was they were temporarily building mobile schools for us, so again I didn't go to school the whole year. So I missed so much school and then in the summer of 1973 we temporarily went to a church school for the summer ,and then it was actually in 1973 September we started school.

Jeevan Sanghera

What was the experience of resettling like and getting used to a new country?

Kalpana Damodar

A lot of family members were living close by so it was easier to settle down, and then also the school I went to, it was just Ugandan Asians, so that was easy you know because all of us were in the same situation and most people were talking the same language, so it was easier. Education was different, so I had to get used to different ways of studying.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did you speak and understand English before arriving?

Kalpana Damodar

Oh yes in Uganda the first language in school is English, everything was in English.

Jeevan Sanghera

So when you moved to England there was already an existing Asian community [how was that integrating]?

Kalpana Damodar

That was not an issue. We managed fine with other people who were already there because I think they were more helpful because they understood our situation, the problem was more with the British, some of them had a lot of discrimination. Especially not the younger British but the older British.

Jeevan Sanghera

Are there any kind of events or situations that stand out to you, of racism in that time?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes after we were in Leicester for about a month or so, and then my dad rented a house, our neighbour was very discriminative, you know when my mum used to cook he would complain of the smells, and then if we had guests, and of course you know when you have guests there's so much noise, everybody is talking, he would complain.

Jeevan Sanghera

When you we're going through this whole resettlement situation, what struck you as the biggest similarities and differences between living in Uganda and living in England?

Kalpana Damodar

The differences were I never took a bus, well there was no buses, I never walked to school, I was always taken by my dad or somebody like a neighbour. When we went to England it's cold and then to go to school you had to take two buses, so that was tough, especially winter time. And the similarities was as I said a lot of my uncles and aunts lived close by, so that was nice that family members were close by.

Jeevan Sanghera

So you mentioned about like getting to school, were there any other big lifestyle changes that you thought were different?

Kalpana Damodar

A lot of stuff was different because we didn't have much money, because my dad had to leave everything there, all we were allowed was £50 each and there’s four of us, so that's like what £200. So we just couldn't go and buy whatever we wanted and my dad was the only one working.

Jeevan Sanghera

So you mentioned that you were in the UK until 1980…

Kalpana Damodar

I was in Leicester until 1980, and then I got married and moved to Leeds in 1980, and then in 1989 we moved to Philippines for two years, and then 1991 that's when I came to USA.

Jeevan Sanghera

As a kind of broad reflection on your time migrating between several countries, how has that affected who you are and your life as well?

Kalpana Damodar

It's nice because all the experiences were different, and it's nice to know different cultures and different ways of living, so it was great. And then USA has been our home for the last 31 years.

Jeevan Sanghera

As a kind of broad question, did you feel that moving away from Uganda changed you as a person?

Kalpana Damodar

I'm not sure because as I said I was so young, so I don't know how I would have been if I was older.

Jeevan Sanghera

As you kind of got older and learnt more about what happened, and also reflecting on your own experiences, what are your reflections on what happened in the expulsion?

Kalpana Damodar

Sometimes when I think about it makes me angry what he did, but then [in] other ways you know I'm happy with my life so I feel that maybe it was for the better, that we moved to England.

Jeevan Sanghera

And has this viewpoint changed over time?

Kalpana Damodar

No, because I think if we stayed in [Uganda] then I don't think I would be where I am in my career and everything.

Jeevan Sanghera

And in terms of arriving in England, you mentioned your career, upon arrival what was your education like, and how did you get to your career?

Kalpana Damodar

I did two years of my high school in England, then I went to colleges, and then after I got married I continued with my studies. I worked for a medical school as a technologist, and then when I came to the US I joined the fragrance industry and there I have grown.

Jeevan Sanghera

When you kind of reflect on your own identity, because you've lived in so many different places, do you think of yourself as Indian or do you think yourself as Ugandan or?

Kalpana Damodar

I totally feel Indian, I think we should not lose our identity. Even though India is not where I grew up but I still feel that we are Indian.

Jeevan Sanghera

And my last question is, is there anything else you want to add or any memories that you wish to share?

Kalpana Damodar

Not really because you know if I talk about it it's a long history, like the experiences we went through, because even when we go to Leicester it wasn't easy for some time like in Leicester where we ended up in my uncle's house, again he only had a two bedroom house and there were three families living there, so it was very tough you know for a month, and my maternal grandfather he had lived his whole life in Uganda, he didn't know English, and then when we got to England it was too cold for him, he could not go out, he did not understand English so he couldn't watch TV, he got so depressed and within like two months he got so sick and he passed away in December, which was very sad. I think if we were in Uganda he would still have survived.

Jeevan Sanghera

Do you think that it had quite a considerable impact, especially on your parents and your grandparents broadly having lived in Uganda for such a long time?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes totally it was devastating for my parents, and my grandfather it was really really devastating.

My father you know he worked for a very good company and he was a senior engineer, and he also owned a business, a tailoring business which somebody else managed, so we were very comfortable, my dad had quite a bit of money, but he had to leave everything there and then when he was going to the embassy there were people who could not leave before because they had no money to even buy tickets. So my dad gave a lot of people help to buy tickets.

Jeevan Sanghera

How was that received by people?

Kalpana Damodar

They were very very happy and some of them they even asked if my dad could give them a contact number and if ever they could pay back, they would pay back, but my dad said no because he didn't know where we were going to end up and he said “Instead of leaving it in Uganda I would rather help our people”.

So I told you in Leicester we stayed in a rented house for some time, I can’t remember exactly how long, then my dad had given some money to one of the expats he worked with who was going to stay behind for several months, he was British. So he had told my dad that “When I get back to Britain I'll give you the money back” and my dad had said the same thing that “I don't know where I'm going to end up” but he had given the person my uncle's address. So he was so nice that he got in touch with my dad and he gave the money back, and my dad was able to buy a small house in Leicester, so that's where I grew up until I got married.

Jeevan Sanghera

What did your parents do when you arrived in England, did they find new jobs?

Kalpana Damodar

My mum was housewife and my dad he worked for an engineering factory but he wasn't a chief engineer, so it was sad that he had a top position [in Uganda], and now he was just a labourer.

Jeevan Sanghera

How did he feel about that change?

Kalpana Damodar

He was upset but he was glad that he was able to find a job, because at the time it was not easy to find a job, and then he had to work nights, the place he worked for he had to work in the nights.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did your mum work in Uganda or was she a housewife?

Kalpana Damodar

No, she was a housewife, you know there there was no need to work.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did she feel that her lifestyle had changed coming from Uganda to England?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes, yeah. Totally because she was the one who's taking care of the house, in Uganda we had somebody working for us, so never had to do anything like, wash clothes, or clean the house, do the dishes, everything was done by somebody [else].

Jeevan Sanghera

Your siblings how were they affected by it as well?

Kalpana Damodar

I just have one brother and yes it was a change for him too because he was already 18. So because my dad was the only one working and it was tough, so he decided not to go and pursue further education, and he did an apprenticeship so he could start working.

Jeevan Sanghera

And did he remain in England?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes yeah, he's still in Leicester.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did any of your family ever go back to Uganda?

Kalpana Damodar

Yes one of my cousins is back in Uganda, you know when the new government came in they called people to go back, he went back because he was never happy in England.

Jeevan Sanghera

Did your family ever think about it, or did they not want to go back?

Kalpana Damodar

My dad visited Uganda one time and so did my brother's family.

Jeevan Sanghera

Is it something you'd ever want to do, to go back?

Kalpana Damodar

No I don't, because you know the pictures my dad and my brother brought back, I was very very sad to [see] what had happened to our house, and Jinja is not what it was, so I want to remember [it] as me growing up there.

Jeevan Sanghera

I think that's all the questions I have, but is there anything you wanted to add?

Kalpana Damodar

No I think that's it.